controller issues

[zehrah]

Hello all;
Lately (past 3 months or so), I have been having controller problems. It started with my computer having an error code stating that the USB connection cannot be recognized, and my Shark control panel says to check the power supply and USB cable. I have changed both the power supply and USB cable numerous times only to have the same errors occur within a couple of days. Sometimes the program will continue running to the end, however, the shark controller program is not showing any movement (x,y, or z, or running time, completed percentages). Sometimes the cnc stops in the middle of a program. Very frustrating.
Any insight or help in this issue would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance

Zehrah
Hemet, CA

[Rando]

Ugh...I had this problem too. NWA will tell you to try a different USB cable, because "sometimes they fail." Between you and me, I've not once ever had a USB cable fail. I have, however, had one of their controller boards fail. I'd say it sounds like your controller is dying, or has cut its last. I suggest you call NWA support and talk to them, describe the problem, and ask nicely if they'll replace the controller. If you're handy with such things, you could have them just send you a new controller board, and you can install it yourself. That's what I did, and in a mere moment it fixed the problems I'd been having for four months, and not a problem since. Well, besides dealing with multiple instances of my own temporary incompetence . A lot of the problems you'd see are going to be very difficult to track down, and in the end the fix will be to replace that controller board. So, the quickest and least painful way for you is very likely going to be just getting a new controller/board.

Regards,

Thom

[studio-n]

NWA may be right and it's mostly because they send out a pretty lousy USB cable with their machine.
Mine constantly fails unless I tape it down so that it is applying a downward pressure. Sooner or later I'll get around to getting a better cable - like
when I run out of tape. cheers!

[Rando]

Yeah, I looked into it more deeply when I had the trouble. What I did was read the USB specification. It's a fardking long and painfully complex protocol, but what I found is that it almost CAN'T be the cable. There is error checking and retry at the hardware level in USB. If the cable works EVER, then it's almost impossible to fail, except in very rare situations where it's transferring high-speed video.

The other thing I found is that the wire routing and arrangement inside the controller box is literally the worst possible way they could have done it. They're running the 120VAC line that goes to the router spindle directly over the microcomputer chip. Talk about a recipe for electrical noise from the router-motor interfering with the processor! I took my controller apart and rearranged everything so it was routed properly, and it worked "more", but not 100%. In the end, getting a brand new controller card fixed the problem instantly, and now I have only very rare malfunctions...but they still are there. Nothing like a jog command that doesn't want to stop going.....

Hope you get it resolved soon; I know how frustrating it is to have an out-of-commission machine.

[Joseph Poirier]

Mostly, this has been an issue since Microsoft started pushing updates for Windows 10. The drivers for windows 10 are designed to use less power, and as a result they do not push enough power out on some USB configurations to get a proper reply from some devices. Today we had great success using a powered USB 2.0 Hub as a repeater to fix this issue on a number of systems.

As it turns out, an unpowered USB hub will only allocate about 150 mA, which is .15 amps, vs. 1.2 amps powering a port on a USB 2.0 powered hub. This extra power made all the difference in the world. I placed links on our website to the powered hub we used on multiple computers in house and a number of PCs at some of our distributors' offices.

see http://help.nextwaveautomation.com/ #3 for details. This has been the #1 issue these last few months on laptops and PCs that do not have the correct power configuration due to the newer Windows drivers updates. And since this workaround is 100% hardware, it shouldn't be affected by any future Windows updates.

We apologize for not finding a workaround for the issue sooner. Please let us know if today's work around falls short of providing you the most permanent fix we could come up with for the least amount of money for all those affected by these recent Microsoft Windows USB driver issues. I wish you all a profitable and productive year.

thx & Best Regards, Joseph Poirier, Software Engineer, Next Wave Automation

[Rando]

Joseph,

I think you might want to keep digging to find what's going on. As I mentioned in another post, I completely severed the +5V line in a USB cable, and the system worked just fine. The nature of the USB differential data transfer lines means that zero power is being consumed from the USB cable. If anything, I recommend you attach a logic analyzer to the USB data lines and monitor them for the keep-alive signals that should be coming at around every 1ms. Those are what keeps the USB device (on both ends) "awake", but those devices are also required to wake from the suspend state with any non-suspend activity at all.

Thom

[Jimmy B]

This is the problem I am having. Just have to reinstall the USB driver. I leave my disc in my laptop. There's nothing wrong with the USB cable.

[Joseph Poirier]

Win10 and newer USB drivers by Microsoft are pushing out 150 mA, but our controller requires a minimum of 190 mA to initialize. That's the issue.

and a powered USB hub will usually fix the issue, because most of them will push out 200 mA to 500 mA and only require 150 mA, bridging communications to our device.

[sharkcutup]

Win10 and newer USB drivers by Microsoft are pushing out 150 mA, but our controller requires a minimum of 190 mA to initialize. That's the issue.

and a powered USB hub will usually fix the issue, because most of them will push out 200 mA to 500 mA and only require 150 mA, bridging communications to our device.

That is interesting because I am using an HP notebook (Windows 10) with just a standard USB cable attached between notebook and controller. I have been using this since March of this year (20 plus projects) with no issues/problems with communications between notebook and controller.

Have a GREAT DAY!!!

Be SAFE around those AWESOME machines!!!

[Joseph Poirier]

The issue only exists with PC USB hardware that supports multiple USB types on the same hardware line... such as 2.0 and 3.0 or 2.0 and 2.0 enhanced on the same USB controller. My PC has 2.0 and 2.0 enhanced and works 100% in Windows 7, but is sporadic in Win10 without a powered USB hub.

But a system like my bosses, which has independent management of 2.0 and 3.0 USB hubs is unaffected and works fine without a powered USB hub in Windows 10.