Considering purchase

Discussion about the CNC Shark Pro Plus HD

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DougE
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:37 pm

Considering purchase

Post by DougE »

Hi,

I've been interested in purchasing a Shark HD for a few months. I've been trying to compare systems in this lower price range.

Can someone answer a few questions please;

I've read that teh Shark HD has had 'issues' with the table/bed not laying flat and true. I've seen where some very helpful and sharing guys here on the forum have shown how they have stabilized the bed with very creative means.

I'm not opposed to modifying the bed as others have done.

However, it seems odd to me that this would remain to be an issue with this product.

Has the manufacturer updated the table/bed ? Or is this still going to need to be modified once I purchase it?

Also, i've read where the gantry also seems to fall out of parrellel plane with the bed (sagging). Is this problem also still existing?

Most of the work that I intend to produce will consist of cut-through items. (Some 3d work is future planned but not immediate)
Since I will be doing cut through, i would like to be able to do so without having to finish cuts by hand. Of course, one can always set the z depth lower and cut further into the 'waste' board below to make up for sagging or warped bases, but, this is not ideal as we all know.

I sure hope that these 'problems' have been resolved ? It tends to make me want to look elsewhere for a machine if I am going to spend $4k on something only to have to modify it right out of the box. (Sorry, I'm not trying to complain about something I don't own yet. I'm just trying to justify how I will spend this money and not have a fully functional product out of the box. Ummm,... gosh... sounds like I'm a whinning school boy no matter how I word it. )

**
Does anyone run the 892 PorterCable router with ths Shark HD ? Any thoughts regarding this router? Problems/complaints?
Anyone running this router with a 1/4" to 1/8" collet adapter? If so, what adapter collet did you purchase and from where?

**
Regarding Vcarve software;

I am curious to know how this software works with AI vector imports.
Can it import AI in layers?
When Vcarve produces G-code from a vector, does it treat its layers as seperate G-code files? Is there a limit on how many layers one can have?
Does Vcarve allow you to instruct the order in which each vector will be cut? IE; Take a simple shape of a box. Contains 4 seperate vectors. Can I instruct Vcarve to cut vector line 1 first? Also, can I instruct it which direction the line should be cut from? (Now I know that most people live for automation in this regard, but there will be instances where I would prefer to manually assign my cut paths. If Vcarve is not able to do these things, does anyone have suggestions for software that will allow this?)
**No I have not downloaded the trial version as of yet. Trying to pick peoples brains and get some input this way before learning software that may not be of value to my needs. I'm not unwilling to learn mind you. Just trying to locate some answers prior to using up this learning time to no avail.

Thank you very much for your help,input and advice.

Doug

jeb2cav
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Re: Considering purchase

Post by jeb2cav »

Hi Doug - some comments below for what it's worth -

Has the manufacturer updated the table/bed ? Or is this still going to need to be modified once I purchase it?

Joe: In my case the ProPlus I started with was good enough for my needs (accuracy well under a 1/16”). My experience with a second one (HD Extended) was not as good – however as you note, wasn’t too difficult to remedy. In the end it will be determined by how it is out of the box and your requirements. I don’t do any engraving, and haven’t made the time for many lithopanes. You’ll find posts on the forum where those folks who have had success take some steps in setting up the material on the bed to account for the finer than 1/16” (0.0625) to 1/32” (0.03125). I’ve never spent much time measuring across a work piece of any size for greater error than 0.03. You can also gain a sense of this by viewing the projects shared in the Project Gallery.

Also, i've read where the gantry also seems to fall out of parallel plane with the bed (sagging). Is this problem also still existing?

Joe: The folks who have the Shark and the HD seem to have the lowest challenge in this area. I did find a ‘sag’ around 0.015 – 0.02 in the ProPlus. Of course, I’ve also purchased lumber that had this variance in width across the material. Frankly, if you’re thinking about a larger machine, the HD is a no brainer given the price difference.

Most of the work that I intend to produce will consist of cut-through items. (Some 3d work is future planned but not immediate)
Since I will be doing cut through, i would like to be able to do so without having to finish cuts by hand. Of course, one can always set the z depth lower and cut further into the 'waste' board below to make up for sagging or warped bases, but, this is not ideal as we all know.

Joe: Different folks have used different methods for this. In my case, I choose to set a cut through depth typically .01 ‘deeper’ than the material. You should use tabs – unless you are going to tape it down or vacuum clamp the pieces – so you’ll have tabs that I’ve found can be cleaned up using a sharp knife usually.

Joe: In my case, I chose to level the table, then add a sacrifice or scarf board. A lot of reasons – cut through, holds the jigs, quick jig/clamp placement (drill a hole into the scarf board and set the clamp). It also provided me a final fine tuning to a consistent height across the table surface. From discussions with users of other CNC brands, this is not unique to the Shark family. I've also run many of these 'cut outs' at the same depth as the material. In those cases I found either a simple removal of an extremely thin piece of material (under 0.02) or full cut through resulted.

I sure hope that these 'problems' have been resolved ? It tends to make me want to look elsewhere for a machine if I am going to spend $4k on something only to have to modify it right out of the box. (Sorry, I'm not trying to complain about something I don't own yet. I'm just trying to justify how I will spend this money and not have a fully functional product out of the box. Ummm,... gosh... sounds like I'm a whinning school boy no matter how I word it. )

Joe: You don’t sound like a whiner – I think these are more than fair questions. If I had to buy a second machine today and had a $4K budget, it would be a Shark.

**
Does anyone run the 892 PorterCable router with ths Shark HD ? Any thoughts regarding this router? Problems/complaints?
Anyone running this router with a 1/4" to 1/8" collet adapter? If so, what adapter collet did you purchase and from where?

Joe: I am currently using the Bosch 1617. I’m not too happy with the bearings thus far – they seem to be drying out after 125-140 hours. Still looking into this. Precise Bits sells a great collet and adapters for both the PC and the Bosch - 1/2 – 1/4 – 1/8.

**
Regarding Vcarve software;

Joe: Good news here – you can download and install a fully functional version of VCarve from the Vectric website. The only thing it won’t do is write out the tap file to load on a CNC machine.

http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/ ... oducts.htm

Joe: They have great tutorials as well – and I strongly encourage any user or person considering entering this tool space to take the time and go through them.

http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/ ... orials.htm

Joe: A few short responses below

I am curious to know how this software works with AI vector imports.
Can it import AI in layers?

Joe – yes

When Vcarve produces G-code from a vector, does it treat its layers as seperate G-code files? Is there a limit on how many layers one can have?

Joe – I’m not aware of any limitations on the number of layers you can have/use.

Does Vcarve allow you to instruct the order in which each vector will be cut? IE; Take a simple shape of a box. Contains 4 seperate vectors. Can I instruct Vcarve to cut vector line 1 first? Also, can I instruct it which direction the line should be cut from? (Now I know that most people live for automation in this regard, but there will be instances where I would prefer to manually assign my cut paths. If Vcarve is not able to do these things, does anyone have suggestions for software that will allow this?)

Joe: You can select any number of vectors (or a single vector) and create a toolpath using them (that one). For example, if you created 5 toolpaths using the same cutter, and ordered them in the sequence you want them cut, you could write a single tap file that would cut the toolpaths in the sequence you desire – or write individual toolpaths.

**No I have not downloaded the trial version as of yet. Trying to pick peoples brains and get some input this way before learning software that may not be of value to my needs. I'm not unwilling to learn mind you. Just trying to locate some answers prior to using up this learning time to no avail.

Joe – I would submit to you that regardless of the CNC machine you select, you won’t find a better piece of CNC software today. There are cheaper ones and more expensive ones out there of course. I’ve met a lot of folks ranging from hobbyists to small sign shops to folks doing some pretty high end things who are all using Vectric software.

drueth
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:09 am

Re: Considering purchase

Post by drueth »

Doug

I have a Shark Pro HD and I love it. BUT like all the other tools in my shop, if you want to be able to do very precion work on them you need to set them up properly and also clean and tune them from time to time. I belive it took me a day to put my table saw together, level it and adjust the fence and everthing else. I have used my Shark to cut gears for a wooden clock and also do chip carving. The chip carving will show up any problems with everthing not being set up proper very fast.

As far as the issues of the table bed. Look at it this way. If you are doing cutout type work If the depth of cut is .75 or .78 it is no big difference. I have found my Shark can do good cuts to about .008 over and over. Why Next Wave has not address that issue is beyond me. It cost me about $50 and a trip to Home Depot to fix my machine. Is that a better deal than the next step up in CNC machines, for me yes.

Vcarve Pro is great. I have no dought that it can do all you want and a whole lot more. It is like any other software it will take time to learn. They have very good tutorials you can watch to help you learn there program. You can also get a great deal of help here and on the Vectrics site.

Many of the post I have read on this sit were people are have problems are because there cut is to agressive and the stepper motor is unable to move the gantry as fast as the software is trying to tell it to move. The shark is not made to cut steal plates SO slow down your cut speed and depth of cut. The other issue is most bit you by are not the size or angle they say they are. And yes some folks on here have had real problems with there Shark. I will let them address how well Next Wave has responded to there problems.
drueth
Shark Pro Plus HD
new to CNC 12/2012

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wolffie
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

Re: Considering purchase

Post by wolffie »

I had a serious problem with my HD when I first bought it (I am in Australia).
It took a while and several attempts of trying to fix it plus lots of frustration, before it turned out that the controlbox was actually faulty.
Once I got a new controlbox, I have never looked back :D

When the machine works the way it is supposed to do, it is an awesome thing to watch.
The first real cut I did, I sat there and watched it, it looked like a ballet dancer was skimming across the material.
I have cut MDF (hate the stuff),engraved aluminium, cut perspex, normal ply and hardwood ply as well as the extremely hard Australian Jarrah and with the right setup, the machine did as it was told to do without any complaints.

I agree with Drueth. Good maintenance is very important and so are good bits.

I have built a "Shark Tank" (look up Shark Tank, thanks Mike) around my machine.
Even with good dust collection, you will be amazed how much dust is sitting in the bottom of the tank, on the clear windows and on the roof of the tank, when the cutting is finished.
All that dust is far better off in your vac than in your lungs.

When you first get the machine and while you assemble it, check every single screw to make sure it is nice and tight, lubricate every moving part with dry lubricant, not oil :o
Wipe all moving parts at least once a week, then re-lubricate.

Above all, have lots of fun.

Cheers
Wolffie
I am never going to die, I live in Paradise already

DougE
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:37 pm

Re: Considering purchase

Post by DougE »

Thank you all very much for your replies and input.

I'm still having trouble pulling the trigger...

I feel pretty confident that this unit will stand up to my needs. Price is fair. (of course we'd all love to be able to spend less.)

I just dislike the idea of purchasing this and spending 'additonal'' set-up time to remedy the table/gantry issues. However, as long as these are what appear to be the most common issues and are repairable, i don't feel too stand-off-ish about it. (If I was reading scores of reports regarding 'not holding x,y or z' or 'linear bearings are shot again etc..etc.... If I was seeing reports such as that I would be shopping elsewhere right now)

**
I'll be giving this one more night and day of consideration. (And I'll be kicking myself over the weekend that I still don't have this machine in place and up and running!)

I will report back when I've made my purchase. (and likely have a lot more questions)

I greatly appreciate all of you taking your time to read my post and give your very comprehensible responses to me! It's good to find people who are helpful and willing to share. (It's a shame that the e-world seems to be sometimes a nicer place than the real-world huh!?)

Merci beaucoup

Thank you all so much

Doug

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