Control Panel v2.1 Build 25f Virtual Zero

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Re: Control Panel v2.1 Build 25f Virtual Zero

Postby Rando » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:22 pm

Tim:

Thanks for the video; my comments here are to try and see if there's a way around it for you, in case it continues to take time for them to get you running. These are the steps and thinking I would use to debug this situation.

I can confidently assert that the root of the positioning problem is the same problem that causes the displayed coordinates to be wrong. Okay, written like that it sounds obvious, doesn't it :-O.

Just for completion, can you also get the controller firmware versions? It says that in the lower-right of the control panel splash screen, IIRC. Are they the same? Are they correct for what's required for the control panel software version?

There's a setting in the ^G 787 dialog for setting the percentage for rapids/jogging. Check that value, but I suspect it's probably fine. 60-70% is typical; you don't often want to jog at the machine's maximum speed...crashes can happen way too fast ;-).

I suspect, based on what you've shown, that the calculation and accumulation of the ordinate (x and y AND z...remember how it was up in the air?) distance values (the ones displayed by the control panel) are being calculated at a different "effective step-per-mm" than the actual steps being sent out, and that that step size is being (inadvertently?) affected by the jog feedrate settings. The actual number of steps sent to the motor appear to be individually sent out as JOG commands, which as you saw, proceed at the speed set in the jog panel. I say "effectively" because there are several places where a calculation error could appear like it was that type of error, even if the actual numeric error was not in steps-per-mm.

I conjecture that the value shown in the display is the "desired" location, however the number of steps being sent to the steppers is being calculated improperly.

You can test this theory by allowing the incorrect movement to occur, and cancelling the virtual-Z without allowing the router to move back. Then, take the X or Y value from the location display; type that into the "step" increment value, and jog ONCE in the appropriate direction. I conjecture that the head will in fact NOT move back to your zero, because the number in the display is actually NOT how the virtual-Z system moved the motors. Why? Because the virtual-Z command issued "jog at whatever I told you last time" commands instead of "jog this specific amount" commands. If you move the jog setting to (by sheer luck) the proper step increment, I conjecture it might effectively get around the miscalculation. Watch carefully, however, in case the displayed values CHANGE when you cancel the virtual-Z (again, don't allow the system to move it back). If they change, then the problem is proven, and you don't need to run that test ;-).

(Please prove me wrong, Joseph, like you always so excellently do, what with it being your software, and all I have are conjectures :D)

I believe you might be able to get around this using the following, until they fix the problem:

1) Set the 25f offset/margin value to be -1.0 (yes, negative 1.0)
2) Change the jog settings to 0.001", and set to use step, not Fast, Not Medium, not Slow. Step. (I believe that will force the individual jog movements to accumulate the same amount as the separately-calculated displayed values.)
3) Run the virtual-Z again.

If the router then moves to what we believe is the appropriate location, then my conjectures are correct. If not, then it's something else, and we'll think harder :D.

You might find that step 1 above isn't really needed, if the properly-calculated (displayed) value correctly incorporates the offset value you put in.

looking back over the numbers you posted earlier, it's possible that which display/steps is "right" could be reversed from my conjecture; One of them is wrong; that's for sure ;-).

Thanks for the video, Tim. Even at that level of "quality", there was plenty to see, and very few things I felt were not there that I needed to see the whole picture. Bravo! I encourage other members with complicated problems to be this thorough in documenting your Shark issues :D. Not only does it make figuring it out easier, but it makes it tons faster for NWA to understand where the problems might be coming from.

And finally, there is always the distinct possibility that the "margin" might have changed from meaning "distance in from edge of material" to meaning "distance out from edge of design", but they didn't make it clear in the display. Maybe they're not reading the radio-button settings right? Could be anything ;-).

I hope at least some of that helps.

Regards,

Thom
=====================================================
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Re: Control Panel v2.1 Build 25f Virtual Zero

Postby TKWoodCrafts » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:40 pm

Ok here is where I’m at.

Not heard from Nextwave all week. I first emailed them on Sunday. Just emailed them again I know I won’t hear back from them until next week. Never had trouble getting information from them before. Not sure what the hold up is now.

Today I needed to run some signs that take two different bits, a V bit and an end mill bit for pocketing. After I loaded the first TAP file and virtual zero the board I ran the file. Then I changed to the other bit to run the end mill bit and loaded the second TAP file, the Shark automatically started to run virtual zero again, it would not use the first virtual zero not matter what I did. :roll: SO I HAD ENOUGH. I found an old control panel file on the computer that would come up and it was Build 16 so I used that to run the orders. I then checked for updates and it said that Build 22 was available, so I downloaded that file and installed it and guess what it come up, Build 25f, so I deleted it and I’m going to run Build 16 for now until I hear back from Nextwave.

Thom - to answer some of your questions
Controller firmware version is 2090 I think it installed this when I ran the update to Build 25f
In the G 787 setting they are the same as they have been under Build 22

Tim
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Re: Control Panel v2.1 Build 25f Virtual Zero

Postby TKWoodCrafts » Sun May 14, 2017 5:00 pm

Here is an update.
I was working with Joseph at Nextwave. I know he has posted on the forum.
After some trial and error we were able to get everything working for what I needed it to do. They are working on the new 3.0 software.
The last version that I have is Build25i and I've been using it for about two weeks now. Here is some of the things that Nextwave changed, I think they are trying to make it safer. Now when you do virtual zero you have to confirm every time you want the router to move to the next corner. This does give you time to move the touch plate before the router moves. They also added that you can set the speed to medium or fast and also use the FRO slide bar to slow it down more if you want. For me the faster the better :D . They slowed down the Z movement when using the touch plate. The screen layout is the same except when doing virtual zero now the virtual zero screen comes up in the center of the screen by itself. I personally don't mind the new lay out it works okay for me. They also made it so you can use the FRO slide bar when you use the jog buttons. You can slow down the speed in jog mode. I like it for slow jog and set the FRO bar to 25% it runs very slow to center the 0 point. I don't have to use the step speed any more because it runs slow enough now.

Not sure if you're going to be able to get the Build25i update if you go to check for updates. If you do download the Build25i, when you go to install it I advise you to install it in a new folder on your computer not the default folder because it will overwrite the program that is there. This way you can always go back to the old Build that you were using if you have problems.

The only other thing I found is that I had to change my touch plate setting to .365 from .375. After using virtual zero I went to move to 0,0,0 and the bit was into the wood. So you may want to double check that setting.

Well the camper is packed and I'm off to the mountains for the week. :D

Tim
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Re: Control Panel v2.1 Build 25f Virtual Zero

Postby monitoringpost » Sun May 14, 2017 5:13 pm

Thanks for the update.

Joseph posted last weekend the link to the beta v25i here.
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