BOSCH

Discussion specifically about the Shark's bigger brother, the CNC Shark Pro

Moderators: al wolford, sbk, Bob, Kayvon

Post Reply
BUBS
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:41 am

BOSCH

Post by BUBS »

I
Last edited by BUBS on Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
wolffie
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

Re: BOSCH

Post by wolffie »

BUBS wrote:IS THERE A RETROFIT KIT AVAILABLE FOR THE CNC SHARK THAT WILL TAKE A REGULAR ROUTER MY COLT DOESN'T HAVE THE POWER TO DO WHAT I WANT TO DO! IF NOT WHY NOT!!! :evil: Is this a waste of time 21 days and no response???? : :evil:
I am as new as can be to this forum but I will respond to your question as nicely as I can.
Perhaps nobody has responded because using all capital letters is regarded as shouting and very rude?????? That goes for this one :evil: as well.
I know when I opened your post I did not feel like responding at all but then decided that maybe you just didn't know about forum etiquette :?:
Cheers
Wolffie
I am never going to die, I live in Paradise already

sk8nmike
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:35 am
Location: Carrollton, Tx

Re: BOSCH

Post by sk8nmike »

What is it you're trying to do? The Pro wasn't designed for a 2 HP router, it's too heavy.

jeb2cav
Site Admin
Posts: 1524
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:04 pm
Location: Kentucky
Contact:

Re: BOSCH

Post by jeb2cav »

Bubs,

From the Rockler page describing the Shark model you purchased, you'll see that there are only 2 routers that these models are designed and thus supported to be used with. That's it out of the box. There are some folks who have made modifications to their Shark and mounted heavier spindles. Some seem to have success with that, and some seem to drift away (not sure if it's success or failure).

What is it you want to do and how are you currently attempting to do it - that is failing (from your perspective)?

BUBS
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:41 am

Re: BOSCH

Post by BUBS »

First of all, I would like to appogize to anyone I offended when I used all caps,so sorry. :oops: However,when one burns up the recommended router for you shark carving desk names from 2 x 6's at 1/2 speed and 10 passes one tends to become up set. :o
Secondly, wouldn't it be nice if there were kits available so machine owners could upgrade their machines to keep them current like we do with software. ;)

jeb2cav
Site Admin
Posts: 1524
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:04 pm
Location: Kentucky
Contact:

Re: BOSCH

Post by jeb2cav »

Bubs,

No offense taken I don't think - but I don't disagree that the lack of response wasn't helped by the presentation.

I think several folks here would be glad to look at your project and provide insight or advice on how they'd do it - hopefully that will give you some ideas. The only router I've burned up is the one that I ran for several hundred hours without changing the bearings.

With regard to upgrading - if you purchased your shark recently, you had the opportunity to choose the HD - which does have a different router (larger) and a different structure for rail support. NWA has stated that they might field an upgrade kit, and frankly it sounds like it might be limited to the ProPlus and perhaps the Pro model - but that is just my speculation, not knowledge. Frankly, I'm not sure that having an HD setup with a larger router would make a difference with this project and how it may have been setup.

In my case, I would like to be able to purchase an upgrade kit to use on my ProPlus, but not having one is not proving catastrophic to creating what I want/need.

You can post your VCarve project using the 'Upload Attachment' tab that you'll see when creating a post.

Eagle55
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:44 pm

Re: BOSCH

Post by Eagle55 »

Hi Bubs,

I think we all probably have a little bit to apologize for. I guess sometimes I look at the guys here on the forum as "professionals" because of the knowledge and experience that they have, but now and then have to remember that they are users just like all of us so things get busy and checking the forum doesn't always make the top of the list. And also sometimes the activity of the forum tends to slump too. Although the all caps things I guess is accepted "etiquette breach" demonstrating anger, personally I don't always buy into the whole thing of all caps but rather what is being said, and I didn't really find what you said as offensive as it was an expression of disappointment and frustration. I know I would have likely answered your post if I had seen it. My excuse was that I was on a trip to North Carolina and by the time I got back your post was already down on the list far enough I didn't notice it. Sometimes I make an attempt to answer a post even if I don't think I am the best to be answering it, simply because it might provoke someone with more knowledge to answer better than my answer or at least let the poster know that there really is someone out there. Anyway, with all that behind us now, we press on.

As Joe has mentioned, the smaller versions of the shark are not designed to handle the larger and much heavier router motor, and in probably most cases of customer retrofit, just don't accomplish an improvement. The lighter designed machines (before the HD model) just didn't have the mechanical sturdiness (from my understanding) to handle the extra weight of the bigger routers without "bending" ,for lack of a better term, the gantry assembly. So even though it may be possible to self-upgrade, I don't think NextWave would sell the upgrade kits, probably because it would create more problems for you than it solves. So also as Joe mentioned lets start and look at the projects that have cause the problems. Although I have never used the Bosch Colt on a Shark, I have one that I use and sometimes use some pretty good sized router bits and have been impressed with its abilities, so I really think that it can do a great job on the Shark. You mention that you slowed it down and had 10 passes. The best way for us to understand the problem enough to be able to begin to help is for us to look at the design and the tool paths that you have created in order to be able to make a judgement call as to what the best solution would be. (BTW, not having this information could also be why no one tackled the question originally) If you would upload the CRV file maybe we can get some thoughts on-board.

Anyway, no hard feelings here. Lets see if we can help.

Roger
CNC Shark HD ~ Control Panel 2.0 ~ Windows 7 & XP
Located in West Tennessee near the Tennessee River
http://www.eaglecarver4.com

BUBS
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:41 am

Re: BOSCH

Post by BUBS »

I have the 3690 shark pro it has two 1" tubes on either side of a 5/16" threaded rod and two 3/4" tubes and a 5/15 threaded rod on the "Z"axes. Thats pretty beefy to me. A a guy needs is a larger cradle to bolt up to cradle drive mech? Am I wrong?

jeb2cav
Site Admin
Posts: 1524
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:04 pm
Location: Kentucky
Contact:

Re: BOSCH

Post by jeb2cav »

You're welcome to try it. I think you'll find that you'll have some flex, and also some slanting in the direction of the router. The design was created to account for a certain weight and torque in the cradle (I'd assume).

We won't be able to help you in the immediate term if you're not willing to share the VCarve project you created - as you used it - when you 'burned out' your Colt router.

You're right - it is pretty beefy. When I first started out, I did manage to abuse some bits until I figured out how to use the system well enough to create what I wanted to create. You can see from the Showcase section of this forum that a wide range of users are in fact able to use this system as it is sold to make a wide variety of pretty difficult things.

rungemach
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:24 am
Location: Sarasota, Florida

Re: BOSCH

Post by rungemach »

There may be two issues here.

One is the longevity of the Colt router, and the second is the ability to use larger routers on non-hd machines.

If the accuracy of the cut you are getting is acceptable to you, the issue may be the life expectancy of the Colt, and trying to solve that issue by bolting on a larger router will bring in the issue of machine flex, and costly solutions.

My colt died halfway through its first set of brushes with a lower bearing failure. I bought a new lower housing and bearing ( I think around 20 bucks) and it's back in place and it's doing fine. It seems there is some spotty quality from Colt to Colt, and you may have had a bad unit. I'm not sure how yours died, so it's hard to tell. Also, factory Colt collets can be troublesome due to runout variability from collet to collet, and a change to precisebits collets really helped mine significantly. (reduced vibration and cleaned up the cut quality)

If you are pushing your cut speeds and depths too hard, you can definitely hear it during the cut. The standard speeds that Vectric software initially gives you for the tools may be a little on the fast and deep side. Their software is used in machines ranging from light duty (like the regular sharks) to very heavy duty commercial machines that have multi-horsepower spindles. So don't be surprised if you can't run aggressive cuts. It's the nature of the Shark/Colt combo. BTW, places like Home Depot and Lowes offer two year extended warranties for under 20 bucks, so if you stay with a Colt, you may want to pick another one up with a long warranty and keep your repaired one as a spare. There are some very good posts on the forum here regarding Colts and alternatives. CNC usage is asking a lot from the humble "laminate trimmer" class of routers.

If you really need the larger HP routers, then you may want to upgrade to a HD model,(and get the large router capacity too). The big routers are much heavier than the Colt and will flex the gantry rods of the standard shark significantly, so your cut depth will vary from center to ends as the router sags in the middle. Although those 20MM rods look beefy, they don't have to move much to change a cut by 20 thousandths.

Due to the cost and issues of priorities, I don't see NWA offering a refit for the non HD class machines any time soon. (Just my opinion.) This thread touches on refitting the standard sharks with fully supported bearings. Usually it is the need for cut accuracy that drives this refit, not so much the need for the bigger routers. www.cncsharktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1342

If you are cutting desk plaques, I would feel that with a "good" Colt and the speeds and depths dialed in, you can get a good product with an occasional need for new brushes and a bearing here and there. Most of the problems come in when we try and push the shark to fast or too deep. The sweet spots are found with experience as we go.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Post Reply