shop vac for dust collection

Discussion about the CNC Shark Pro Plus

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ttolli
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:17 am

shop vac for dust collection

Post by ttolli »

I am fixing to purchase the hd and I am very limited to space, I am going to build the tank as proposed on my last post but I would like to purchase a large shop vac and mount it on the wall above the tank.I think the vac could easily handle the dust output. Would this work and would I need any special grounding of the vac? Kind Regards

rungemach
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Location: Sarasota, Florida

Re: shop vac for dust collection

Post by rungemach »

While you are considering how to build your vac arrangement, you may want to consider incorporating a cyclone type dust separator.

I started out with a very large shop vac, and the filter became full in almost no time. I then went to adding one of the small clear " Dust Deputy" cyclones attached to a 5 gallon collection bucket. That helped keep the vac filter very clean, but the whole thing did not have enough suction to do a good job.

For me, the final solution was a 1.5 hp blower motor pulling through a Super Dust Deputy cyclone and large hose to the router. The Rockler super flexible hose is good for this. I am using the Kent Dust shoe which has a 4" opening for the hose. The NWA unit seems smaller. The blower is pushing the clean air from the cyclone into 1 micron filter bags. You could just as easilly rout the exhaust the outside of your shop as the air from the cyclone is quite clean. (but still has the very small particles which are a problem for your lungs). Outside exhaust can get costly though if you heat or air condition your shop area.

If you go the shop vac route, you may wish that you would have sized up from the beginning.

Hope this helps.

Bob

hdtheater
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:14 am

Re: shop vac for dust collection

Post by hdtheater »

Bob's story is very similar to mine and I am sure that a lot of people will tell you the same thing. One thing I did was buy a small dust collector from Harbor Freight to control dust. The motor on my Shop-Vac started to burn out.

-Eric
Thanks,

-Eric

Facebook.com/inspireddesignstx

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Bob
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Re: shop vac for dust collection

Post by Bob »

Same story here:
I started with a small shop vac.
Then a big shop vac.
Finally, a 1.5 hp Mini Gorilla cyclone type collector. With that much air moving through the enclosure, there is only one place for the dust to go.
Bob
"Focus"
Antonie Van Leeuwenhoek (Developer of the microscope.)

gordread
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Location: Onoway, Alberta
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Re: shop vac for dust collection

Post by gordread »

I've had a 1.5hp dust collector for a while, and am in the process of building a shoe for my HD. So far I'm using a 2.5" port on the shoe. Do you guys think this will be enough?

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wolffie
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Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

Re: shop vac for dust collection

Post by wolffie »

I finally worked out the problem with mine.
Vacs are not designed to have the motor running any at length of tine, they tend to over heat.
I have my Shark in a tank and found it does not really create that much dust when it is running.
If I the running time of the cutting is very long, I just started the vac up once in a while, it works well.
In between tool changes, I open the tank and suck out the remaining dust.
It does not really take that much time to do.
I now have my 4" dust extractor fitted but I still use the vac at the end.
Cheers
Wolffie
ps. make sure you do some air inlets to replace the air that is sucked out.
I am never going to die, I live in Paradise already

rungemach
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:24 am
Location: Sarasota, Florida

Re: shop vac for dust collection

Post by rungemach »

It may be worth pointing out that one of the goals of the dust collection is to keep dust from accumulating on the bearing rods and lead screws of the gantry. If you put an enclosure around the Shark to contain the dust it helps keep your shop clean, but good source capture using a dust shoe with a good blower will help keep the whole machine clean.

I recently had a chance to stop in a Rockler store and looked at the Shark they used for demos there. It had an enclosure but no dust shoe, ( it was not a hd model and so does not have the strength for a dust shoe). The machine was covered with a thick layer of dust, including the drive screw in the gantry as well as the bearing rods. I feel this will cause problems down the road as fine dust gets into the bearings and drive screw nut.

If you have good source capture and a good blower, (not a shop vac), your machine should be almost dust free all the time. Your shop is less likely to get a fine coat of wood dust on everything, and your lungs will thank you.

I dont think a small diameter hose can do that for you. Think 4 inch.. The longer the length of small hose you use, the more flow you lose.
If you go with 4" and at least 1.5 hp blower, you will not have to do it over later when you vac dies or the collection is not enough. Please give serious thought to a cyclone in your system, it will keep your filters clean and let you run a finer filter to contain the fine dust, (which is the heath hazzard)
I can fill up a five gallon continer faster than I would have originally thought. If you accidentally suck in a small part or a chunk of wood, the cyclone will keep it from hitting the blower fan and you can retrive it in the dust container (unharmed).

Bill Pentz has done a lot of research on dust issues and has a lot of info on his website. It’s a lot of reading, but he makes very good points.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

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wolffie
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Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

Re: shop vac for dust collection

Post by wolffie »

rungemach wrote:It may be worth pointing out that one of the goals of the dust collection is to keep dust from accumulating on the bearing rods and lead screws of the gantry. If you put an enclosure around the Shark to contain the dust it helps keep your shop clean, but good source capture using a dust shoe with a good blower will help keep the whole machine clean.

I recently had a chance to stop in a Rockler store and looked at the Shark they used for demos there. It had an enclosure but no dust shoe, ( it was not a hd model and so does not have the strength for a dust shoe). The machine was covered with a thick layer of dust, including the drive screw in the gantry as well as the bearing rods. ( one might wonder how often they clean that machine?) I feel this will cause problems down the road as fine dust gets into the bearings and drive screw nut.

If you have good source capture and a good blower, (not a shop vac), your machine should be almost dust free all the time. Your shop is less likely to get a fine coat of wood dust on everything, and your lungs will thank you.

I dont think a small diameter hose can do that for you. Think 4 inch.. The longer the length of small hose you use, the more flow you lose.
If you go with 4" and at least 1.5 hp blower, you will not have to do it over later when you vac dies or the collection is not enough. Please give serious thought to a cyclone in your system, it will keep your filters clean and let you run a finer filter to contain the fine dust, (which is the heath hazzard)
I can fill up a five gallon continer faster than I would have originally thought. If you accidentally suck in a small part or a chunk of wood, the cyclone will keep it from hitting the blower fan and you can retrive it in the dust container (unharmed).

Bill Pentz has done a lot of research on dust issues and has a lot of info on his website. It’s a lot of reading, but he makes very good points.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
I totally agree with you, however
1) the OP said he was very limited on space, hence most probably does not have the room for a 4" sucker.
2) I doubt he will be running it at the same length of time as the more experienced users do
3) If the machine is cleaned out thoroughly after each use ( I am not talking about running the whole day, just learning) it is not that difficult to keep everything free of dust.

Since I finally managed to start up my machine this week and ran some learning curve projects, there really was not that much dust in the Shark tank. Most of it actually sat under the table not around the gantry except on the bracket that holds the gantry to the table.
I was watching it as the rotation of the bit created quite an airflow around it and blew the dust away from the workpiece towards the sides of the tank.
It did, however, show how important an enclosure is, the side windows were covered in dust that would otherwise have blown around in the workshop and been breathed into my lungs.
I have a 3hp dust extractor with cyclone and 1 micron bag but I still have dust under the table. I do not have a dustshoe as I like to be able to see what the machine is doing.
Cheers
Wolffie
I am never going to die, I live in Paradise already

rungemach
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:24 am
Location: Sarasota, Florida

Re: shop vac for dust collection

Post by rungemach »

Hi Wolffie

From all your experiences so far I can see why you would like to watch the machine at all times. I think everyone here feels how frustrating your situation has been. (probably a world's record for problems on a single machine). When your machine gets straightened out and you are comfortable that it will not malfunction, (which may still be a while off), you can take a standard dust shoe and remove a small strip of the bristles to give you a view of the bit. (like a missing front tooth).. I did that on mine and can watch the bit as well as keep the machine really clean. The times I run without the shoe are getting fewer and fewer over time. As you get more confident in the machine, you may feel better about not having to stay quite so near while it is running a long job.

If you look over what Bill has written on his web pages, he makes a good case that it is the "invisible dust" with the very fine particle sizes that hurt us the most. His heath was damaged by this problem, he is speaking first hand.

My work space is tighter than tight (floor to ceiling), everything is on wheels and rolls out when needed (except the shark enclosure). My cyclone is wall mounted up out of the way. The catch bucket is a little under eye level. So even with a really tight space, you can usually find a way to work something in. If you can vent to the outside, you don’t need the space for the filters, so the whole thing can fit in a pretty tight area.

I thought I would be an occasional user also, but then kept finding more things I would rather do on the cnc, so it has become a "go to" machine.
Because it stays so clean, I use it more often instead of getting out a different tool that I might have used before. I hope ttollie will find that he uses his a lot more than he thinks. Just give it time and it pulls you in..

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wolffie
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Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

Re: shop vac for dust collection

Post by wolffie »

Hi Runge
Thank you for your reply.
Yes, it HAS been a steep learning curve.
Thank goodness I am not a giver upper :D
I am fully in agreement with what you said and I feel that I will be using my machine a lot when I get comfortable with it.
I believe this machine has so much potential.
However, as a starting point, I still believe that a shopvac will be good.
Since I connected the big sucker to the Shark tank, the shopvac gets used for cleaning up the shop floors etc. so the money is not wasted.
Still experimenting where the most proficient place is for the outlet of the 4".
The dustboot is not available here as yet, so in the meantime I will ruminate about the pros an cons about it and whether I will feel confident enough to trust it will do the right thing to me :)
I notice you people over there use MDF a lot, I don't.
Firstly because the quality we have here is terrible and secondly, living in the wet tropic, MDF is not very appreciative of the humidity and thirdly, almost every farmer here has a milling machine, so real timber is readily available at a good price :D
Cheers
Wolffie
I am never going to die, I live in Paradise already

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