How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

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DoctorSaul
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Location: Chesterfield, Missouri

How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by DoctorSaul »

After doing some 3D carvings, I see that I need to use a much finer (narrower diameter) finishing router bit for the finishing toolpath. I was using a 1/4" round nose for the finishing toolpath and roughing toolpath. I have a 1/8" round nose bit and a 1/8" end mill bit (on order... should receive by next week) that I'd like to evaluate as the finishing bit. How do I add these new bits to the pulldown menu in V-Carve Pro and Cut3D, as the options currently present in the pulldown menu do not list these bits? How do I get the information that is needed regarding the added bit (i.e. all the bit specifications)?

Are there better bit geometries that I should consider for the finishing bit? Can you use a 1/8" down spiral bit? What would be the smallest diameter bit that could be used for the finishing toolpath?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Saul

tonydude
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Re: How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by tonydude »

to add a new endmill... or any other bit
I select an existing end mill entry or a new ballnose , click copy, and then update the values as needed
Buffalo,NY

"What will matter is not what you bought but what you built; not what you got, but what you gave”

Aspire 11.015, photo vcarve, cnc mako shark extended bed with the new upgraded HD 5 gantry with Led pendent.

jeb2cav
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Re: How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by jeb2cav »

Hi Saul - the VCarve Pro Reference Manual has a pretty good write up on this. The manual is not installed when the VCarve Pro installation occurs, but is available on the installation DVD. It is one of the choices on the UI that pops up when you load the DVD. You can open it from there, and then save it to your computer in the place of your choice.

I did a search using "new tool" and the first return is the section that provides the details. While the manual is 150 pages long, it is in pdf form and the search seems to point to useful information thus far.

Another good place to look for tips on this is the Vectric Forum - http://www.vectric.com/forum.

It's not clear to me about the type of bit you are asking about. You mention trying a 1/8" down cut - and this makes me think you are talking about an end mill. I am using ball nose bits for the 3D components of my projects. You can use an end mill of course, but the level of detail obtained will be limited to the diameter of the flat bottom of the end mill.

With regard to your questions on finishing bits - I'd do a search on the Vectric Forum. I'd like to tell you my opinion, but don't have enough use experience to say with authority. However, I think the general answer is - it depends. If you're working with large flat areas, a good end mill in a size as large as you can get it would be best (and fastest). If you are doing 3D, and you have a lot of small details, you might want to go to 1/8" or even 1/16". From conversations with experienced users, and from the most recent Vectric's User Group meeting, I picked up that with end mills (flat areas), it is good to use downcut bits with shallow final pass running with the grain. In the case of 3D, the knowledgeable folks also seemed to consistently use a tool path that went with the grain (vice the default 45 degree in Cut3D). Another component of this is the step factor. Again, a lot of opinions on the Vectric forum, but it seems like the default values in VCarve are good - but also balanced against production run time. Many of the folks I talked with at the Vectric User Group used a smaller step factor - but the trade is a longer production run.

DoctorSaul
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Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:39 pm
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri

Re: How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by DoctorSaul »

Thanks for the information.

I see that I can add a new tool, but the "bit information" section is blank. How do I get the settings for the new tool? Do I just make this up using my best judgement? ....or copy the settings for a closely related bit?
Is there a reference database somewhere in V-Carve or Cut3D (or elsewhere) that addresses the general or typical settings that should be used for, say, a 1/8 diameter cutting tool, or a 1/16 diameter tool?

Saul

jeb2cav
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Re: How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by jeb2cav »

Hi Saul - I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say the bit information is blank when you are editing the tool database and have selected New Tool. I think you are seeing what what I've attached in the jpg labeled step 1.
Step 1
Step 1
If this is the case, your next step is to go to the Tool Type pull down and select one of the 9 cutter types VCarve Pro supports. When you click the pull down, you should see what I've attached in the jpg labeled step 2.
Step 2
Step 2
When you pick a tool, the default data that Vectrics has come up with will be filled in. You should see what I've attached in the jpg labeled step 3.
Step 3
Step 3
Be sure to change the name of this bit so you're not confused when looking at your tool database in the future. In this example, I selected Ball Nose.

The Geometry information you can obtain from the bit vendor. At this point (you selected New Tool, you selected a tool type, and you haven't hit Apply or OK yet, when you change the Diameter, you'll notice changes in the cutting parameters. From the VCarve reference manual, these are pre-defined. You'd/We'd have to ask Vectrics how they came up with this - I'm sure there is more than life experience put into this. As I'm just starting out in this, I've been using the values presented by VCarve and so far haven't run into any issues in the quality of the cut. I may be hurting my bits in some cases though and just don't know better today.

Once you've got the right geometry entered, you can hit apply and/or OK - you have to hit ok or it won't save this new tool in your tool database - and the tool data is set (and stored after hitting the OK).

The Spindle Speed is really a reference in the Shark's case, as there is no spindle speed control at run time. The feed rate and plunge rate again are values presented by VCarve. However, you can change these and it will affect how the Shark runs. You can also influence these rates at runtime by using the FRO (Feed Rate Override) slider in the Basic Control Panel. So, you can choose a setting for a single tool using soft wood (set the feed and plunge rates for soft wood), then use the slider to decrease those without having to have a second tool in your VCarve tool database with the slower rates.

Lastly, I've found from perusing the Vectrics forum a great set of reference data at the Onsrud web site (bit manufacturers). The provide tables that enables you to do the math to calculate more refined settings (beyond geometry). Go to http://www.onsrud.com/xdoc/FeedSpeeds After the initial paragraphs of text, you'll see links to tables for various material types. I haven't worked the math yet myself, but I intend to (can't do everything all at once). Again, I've just started so have it written down as a needed step, but the default settings I'm using are working for what I'm wanting to do now.

Hope this helps you get started.

DoctorSaul
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Location: Chesterfield, Missouri

Re: How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by DoctorSaul »

Joe:

Thanks so much for the help. It's so simple once you see it explained. I thank you for taking the time to put together such a nice and easy to follow explanation.

Saul

DoctorSaul
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:39 pm
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri

Re: How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by DoctorSaul »

Joe and fellow Shark Talk members:

I finally had time to follow Joe's instructions on how to add a new tool to my tool database.

On your step 2, your pulldown menu of types of tools shows many choices, mine shows only "endmill" and "roundnose". I want to add a 1/4" v-bit, and a 1/16" straight bit..... and still can't figure out how to do this..... the add tool pulldown does not list any v-bit or straight bit option. Your pulldown shows 9 different types of tools, mine shows only 2.

I've been studying the V-Carve Pro Instruction manual, but can't find anything that would help me solve the tool addition obstacle. Any help would be deeply appreciated.

Saul

DoctorSaul
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:39 pm
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri

Re: How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by DoctorSaul »

I figured out that there is no option to edit the tool selection on the main V-Carve Pro window. One needs to load a "crv" file, then the option to edit the toolbase appears.

Another interesting, but related obstacle was addressed by "Mark" at Vetric regarding editing the toolbase in Cut3D. Only endmills and ballnosed tools are supported in Cut3D. Yhis is unfortunate, as the only options for tooling (endmill and ballnosed) means that rather large carvings must be made for detailed carving files in order to see the detail in the finished work. I purchased some rather nice carving files from 3dmodelclub.com that I was hoping to carve on my Shark. I suppose I could still do these carvings, but will have to increase the size in order to use the allowable tooling and still get reasonable detail

Mark's response was:
"Only end mills and ball nosed tools are supported in the
current version of Cut3D.
You can add your 1/16th straight bit as an end mill.
But V-bit tools are not supported, I am afraid"

I'm still very much a novice with all this, so if anyone sees that I'm misunderstanding something here, please let me know!

Saul

REG
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Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:30 pm

Re: How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by REG »

Saul, you can use a straight bit instead of the end mill as stated in your quote from Vectric forum and not change a thing except maybe your cutting speed - slowing it down. The end mill having twisted flutes removes material in smaller amounts than a straight bit. Your Z axis decent should also be a bit slower. As for the ball nose, it is the best finishing bit but if you make smaller passes you can use the core box bit (also known as the cove bit). A core box only has two cutting edges where the ball nose has 6 or more. In Cut3D you are shaping and rounding so V bits do not have an application here. V bits are good for carving letters where you would not use a end mill or ball nose for this. V Carve and Cut3D are two different programs to do different functions so they need the appropriate "tool" to perform those functions.

Hope this helped.

Bobby

REG
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:30 pm

Re: How do I add router bits to pulldown menu?

Post by REG »

Here is a good How To on Vectric site for custom tool creation:
http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/ ... utters.htm

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