Virtual Zero not Compensating

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Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby Seppy » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:42 pm

I have a problem when using virtual zero on a sign I am currently working on. The project involves two circles with text between them that I am V-carving and using a 1/8 end-mill to clear before the v-bit. When the 1/8 cutter performs the circular interpolation around each circle (the most inner and most outer) it does not compensate for the virtual zero. It does each circle path at a set depth. The inside one at .111" deep and the outer one at .080" deep. All other cuts between the inner and outer circles and between the text compensates like it should. This leaves a ring on each circle; one recessed and one proud.
I am not sure how to correct this or if this is a glitch in the virtual zero program.
I am running CNC Shark Control Panel V2.1 Build 25 f. and the original programs are created with V-Carve Desktop 9.512.

Pictures attached

20181227_133637.jpg


20181227_133603.jpg


20181227_133547.jpg
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Re: Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby sharkcutup » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:23 pm

Can you possibly post your file for review? (Provided there are no copyright violations - such as paid for models etc...)

Are you letting the tool paths run to completion? Or are you cutting them short assuming things are not running correctly. There are certain tool paths that carve out areas but then also have cleanup work to accomplish to complete task of the completion of the toolpath. Example: carving pocket around text/letters/characters then if there is anything nearby such as a circle around the text the toolpath will use that circle to clean up pocket along the circles diameter.

If you can upload your file we here on the forum could quickly solve your problem and if not we can provide suggestions that might help get you to where you want to be.

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Re: Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby Seppy » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:50 pm

Thanks for replying!

Here is the V-Carve Desktop file with only the vectors that I am having the issues with. Partial file due to privacy and copy write.

RWR-Crest-MDF-PartialForForum.crv
(1.16 MiB) Downloaded 66 times


Here is the G-code created from the V-Carve file just for the 1/8" cutter causing the issue (not the V-carve cutter)

V-Carve 1 [Pocket].tap
(96.84 KiB) Downloaded 58 times


Here is the file that the virtual zero program created to compensate for the "Z" height.

Virtual Zero.txt
(96.93 KiB) Downloaded 64 times


Just the two circular interpolations. stay at a set height and do not compensate. Everything else worked perfectly. I have run it twice and recreated it to make sure it wasn't a one off thing.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Seppy
 
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Re: Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby sharkcutup » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:41 am

After reviewing the files there does not seem to be anything wrong with the files created using V-Carve that I have been able to determine. The Virtual Zero tap file does show adjustment compensation throughout the entire z-axis.

It may be a machine and/or controller problem. I have not run the project to determine if my machine using virtual zero does duplicate your machine results.

What CNC machine are you using to carve this project?

Other forum members may chime in on this thread.

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Re: Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby sharkcutup » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:44 pm

I just ran your V-carve file (the first toolpath) with my 1/8" bit and my machine did very well on the virtual compensation. There were two small areas where it showed a little (very minor) of what you have but I contribute that to the machine flex. This was very minor and could be taken care of with a dremel tool if needed. Up close you can see these on my project run. Most individuals would not see this unless you told them what to look for. But being seen at a distance for a sign would be ok.

Yours seems to be more of an issue because it looks deeper and encompasses more area.

Saved the toolpath using the post processor --- CNCShark-USB arcs (inch)(*.tap)

20181228_131713.jpg

Here the two toolpaths completed on my machine. Light sanding was performed with 120 grit sandpaper (did not have to use Dremel tool after all).

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Re: Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby Seppy » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:59 pm

Hey Sharkcutup!

Thanks for taking the time to run that.

Question: Just so I am sure, did you run virtual zero or just set zero and run the cutter paths?

I am using a Shark HD3.

If you ran Virtual Zero then there is definitely a glitch with my machine. I have opened a ticket with Nextwave to see if I need a software update. I know they take their time with answering the tickets so I will wait and see what they say.

In the meantime, I have done a few things since:
1. I programmed just the outer circle and offset it to run at the bottom of the V carve. Set it up with virtual zero and got the exact same results with no "Z" compensation.
2. I reprogrammed the cutter path by grouping the text and circles in V-Carve; same result, no "Z" compensation
3. I divided the circle into two quadrants; one quadrant for the word INDEPENDENT and one quadrant for the rest of the words.
a. independent compensated like it should with good results
b. the large quadrant with RECOVERING WOMEN RIDERS did not compensate
4. I then divided the circle and text into 3 quadrants; 1-INDEPENDENT, 2-RECOVERING, 3-WOMEN RIDERS and all compensated like they should
Note: Each quadrant had to overlap each other to clear out the pocket. There are dwell marks at each of the overlaps but, all in all, the results were decent.

So I have come to the conclusion that any perfect arc over 180' does not compensate for the "Z" when using virtual zero on my machine.

Now, you have perked my interest in the post processor. I am using (and have always used) "CNCShark-USB 3D Contour (inch) (*.tap). I set it at this and it worked and I have never changed it in 3 years.

I am wondering if this would make a difference so I will go and program a couple of circles and see if the "Z" compensates.

Will let you know the results soon.

Thanks!
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Re: Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby sharkcutup » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:18 pm

Yes I used virtual zero throughout my test carve of your project file.

In my own opinion,

The contour post processor works best on project models.

The arcs post processor is pretty much for everything else.

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Re: Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby Seppy » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:33 pm

Okay... Some success.

- I drew an 11.5" circle in V-Carve
- I programmed profile toolpath, inside/left using a 1/8" end mill
- I saved the cutter path 2 times: once with the 3D post processor and one with the ARCS post processor
- I set up a piece of MDF and deliberately put a 1/8" shim under the top of it
- Loaded the G-Code and ran virtual zero.
- I ran both of the cutter paths cutting air (remove the MDF and shut the router off)
- Both did not compensate "Z" and ran the entire circle at .087" for the "Z" height

I examined the G-Code and both are identical except one line: G64 P.1 in 3D was G64 P.01 in ARCS

Here is the code. Notice that the circle is programmed using G03 with X Y I and J. "Z" is only called once at the beginning

G90
G20
F100.0
G64 P.01
S 2000
M3
G0 Z1.0010
F100.0
G00 X0.3125 Y6.0000 Z0.2000
F100.0
G00 X0.3125 Y6.0000 Z0.1000
F20.0
G1 X0.3125 Y6.0000 Z-0.0100
F100.0
G03 X6.0000 Y0.3125 I5.6875 J0.0000
G03 X11.6875 Y6.0000 I0.0000 J5.6875
G03 X6.0000 Y11.6875 I-5.6875 J0.0000
G03 X0.3125 Y6.0000 I0.0000 J-5.6875
F100.0
G00 X0.3125 Y6.0000 Z0.2000
G00 Z1.0010
G00 X0.0000 Y0.0000
M02

So... The light bulb went on!
I modified the circle I drew by stretching it in the "X" direction only by .001", So now it is not a true circle, X11.501" X Y11.500". I made a new G-Code and, of course, it could not use G03 because it is not a true circle. It used G01 and generated over 500 lines of code to make the circle. Every line has a "Z" value and it compensated as it should.

Can you check to see if your code used G03 or not?
- If it used G03 and still compensated, that is good. That how it should work.
- If it used G01 then I am curious to know if yours would do the same running my code with G03.

Attached are my codes so you can see the difference. The one with 001 in the title is the modified circle.

Let me know.
Attachments
Profile 1 ARCS.tap
(1.01 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
Profile 1 ARCS-001.tap
(16.12 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
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Re: Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby sharkcutup » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:58 pm

Hello Seppy,

Sorry I was not able to get back to you as I have been busy with family and the holiday's.
Just a getting in here quick then back to family.

And of course as I am still with new year coming soon. I have noticed that you have made progress and posted on the Vectric Forum with an acknowledgement from Adrian. That is fantastic to see that progress is being made!!!
Hope you get your problems solved!

And Most of have a Happy NEW Year!!!

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Re: Virtual Zero not Compensating

Postby Seppy » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:11 pm

Hi Sharkcutup,

Thanks for replying. I heard back from Nextwave today as well and they are working with me on solving this problem. That's amazing considering it is New Years Eve.

As you can see from the Vectric forum, I have a couple of work arounds so I am not stopped from carving (that would be devastating!)

Appreciate all the support.

Have a great time with your family and Happy New Year to you as well!

Seppy
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