Re: Spindle For Shark Available
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:37 am
Thanks for sparking my interest, pushing me over the edge to one of the 2.2kw spindles. I went with the air cooled one, just because. I used the platform template provided on this forum, modified for an 80mm cutout. I'll make two plastic ones first, then when the spindle comes I'll make some aluminum ones. Way too much fun!
I believe it will be arriving sometime next week, I assume....
In the meantime, I've been following the trail of making the spindle obey the controller better. My findings so far:
First, several have mentioned just wishing for an on-off from the controller. This should be possible, almost easy. At least on the VFD that's coming for mine, there's a configuration setting that determines how three inputs (X1,2,3?) function. I think there's some configuration there that could be used to connect to the "spindle" wiring inside the controller. Following that thinking, if it was just on-off I wanted, I'd get a cheap low-current reed-relay that will work with the 3/5V spindle output from the controller board. Drive the relay with the same output that goes to the solid-state relay currently, and then connect those two to the controller's X inputs like they were a switch. It might work, but biasing a mechanical relay on the same circuit as a solid-state relay....why do I get the feeling problems will occur?
On further research, and especially reading the VFD's manual, It appears the "normal" way to connect a spindle like this is to have the controller output three signals. First, a 0~10V DC (analog) signal that goes to the 10V input on the VFD controller, which sets the spindle RPM. Your controller might have one; they seem common what with the whole thing being insanely generic.
I we can get the software to output the S### values, and if the controller's firmware supports that command, and it will output that analog voltage, we should be golden. That's the main signal we don't currently have. For complete control, there also needs to be a digital fwd-rev signal, controlled by the M03 and M04 commands (turn on CW, turn on CCW). And, of course, the whole enable-disable signal is needed as well, but that can be mocked up a gazillion ways.
One other "normal" way to control the speed is to take a 10K ohm potentiometer (variable resistor, volume control, etc.) and connect that to the properly-configured X1-3 signals. That will give you a "remote" speed knob, so you at least don't have to always be poking your fingers so close to a 220VAC circuit.
I decided to walk down that path and figure out what's missing. For me, I always wondered just what good the spindle RPM values did in the tool databases. Well, I poked around a little, and figured out how to change the post-processor files to correctly output the spindle speed for the toolpath into the tap file. Yeah, it even works . There are two places the changes need to be made.
(BTW, in case you hadn't figured it out yet, start- and stop- actions and custom gcode go in there, since Vectric doesn't give us features for that directly)
To make the FIRST change, just go into each of the four CNC Shark Post files and make the following change, around line 98:
Change this: "S 2000"
To this: "[S]"
To make the SECOND change, in the post files, go to the end of the file in the NEW_SEGMENT section (around line 183), and: as the last line in that section, add this line: "[S]"
The double-quotes and the square brackets are required. At first I thought it would be "S [S]", based on the variable definitions a bit above there. But, that produced "S S14000", and that just looks wrong.
With those tiny changes, the RPM values you put into the tool data form (including the one-off "Edit" changes), correctly show up in the GCODE files output by the system, with the values set at the same time the normal motor is turned on. Probably want to leave the "spindle ON" mWell, granted I only really tried a short Pocket tool path. It will also output updated spindle speed values for each toolpath.
IMPORTANT: the downside to this is that you're (eventually) going to have to start paying a lot more attention to those values! Now if only we get the CNCCookbook's Feeds & Speeds calculators ("cut knowledge base" to feed directly into the Vectric tool database, eh?
Okay, so the part that goes from the tool F&S gets into the toolpath (with those post changes) properly. The next step is to see if the spindle plug and/or other outputs will create the 0~10V to go the VFD to directly control the speed, and the two on-off and fwd-rev signals. I suspect there's gotta be a way
One more step closer!
Regards to all,
Thom
I believe it will be arriving sometime next week, I assume....
In the meantime, I've been following the trail of making the spindle obey the controller better. My findings so far:
First, several have mentioned just wishing for an on-off from the controller. This should be possible, almost easy. At least on the VFD that's coming for mine, there's a configuration setting that determines how three inputs (X1,2,3?) function. I think there's some configuration there that could be used to connect to the "spindle" wiring inside the controller. Following that thinking, if it was just on-off I wanted, I'd get a cheap low-current reed-relay that will work with the 3/5V spindle output from the controller board. Drive the relay with the same output that goes to the solid-state relay currently, and then connect those two to the controller's X inputs like they were a switch. It might work, but biasing a mechanical relay on the same circuit as a solid-state relay....why do I get the feeling problems will occur?
On further research, and especially reading the VFD's manual, It appears the "normal" way to connect a spindle like this is to have the controller output three signals. First, a 0~10V DC (analog) signal that goes to the 10V input on the VFD controller, which sets the spindle RPM. Your controller might have one; they seem common what with the whole thing being insanely generic.
I we can get the software to output the S### values, and if the controller's firmware supports that command, and it will output that analog voltage, we should be golden. That's the main signal we don't currently have. For complete control, there also needs to be a digital fwd-rev signal, controlled by the M03 and M04 commands (turn on CW, turn on CCW). And, of course, the whole enable-disable signal is needed as well, but that can be mocked up a gazillion ways.
One other "normal" way to control the speed is to take a 10K ohm potentiometer (variable resistor, volume control, etc.) and connect that to the properly-configured X1-3 signals. That will give you a "remote" speed knob, so you at least don't have to always be poking your fingers so close to a 220VAC circuit.
I decided to walk down that path and figure out what's missing. For me, I always wondered just what good the spindle RPM values did in the tool databases. Well, I poked around a little, and figured out how to change the post-processor files to correctly output the spindle speed for the toolpath into the tap file. Yeah, it even works . There are two places the changes need to be made.
(BTW, in case you hadn't figured it out yet, start- and stop- actions and custom gcode go in there, since Vectric doesn't give us features for that directly)
To make the FIRST change, just go into each of the four CNC Shark Post files and make the following change, around line 98:
Change this: "S 2000"
To this: "[S]"
To make the SECOND change, in the post files, go to the end of the file in the NEW_SEGMENT section (around line 183), and: as the last line in that section, add this line: "[S]"
The double-quotes and the square brackets are required. At first I thought it would be "S [S]", based on the variable definitions a bit above there. But, that produced "S S14000", and that just looks wrong.
With those tiny changes, the RPM values you put into the tool data form (including the one-off "Edit" changes), correctly show up in the GCODE files output by the system, with the values set at the same time the normal motor is turned on. Probably want to leave the "spindle ON" mWell, granted I only really tried a short Pocket tool path. It will also output updated spindle speed values for each toolpath.
IMPORTANT: the downside to this is that you're (eventually) going to have to start paying a lot more attention to those values! Now if only we get the CNCCookbook's Feeds & Speeds calculators ("cut knowledge base" to feed directly into the Vectric tool database, eh?
Okay, so the part that goes from the tool F&S gets into the toolpath (with those post changes) properly. The next step is to see if the spindle plug and/or other outputs will create the 0~10V to go the VFD to directly control the speed, and the two on-off and fwd-rev signals. I suspect there's gotta be a way
One more step closer!
Regards to all,
Thom